Welcome to the Published and Paid podcast, where we share book, business, leadership and life lessons in 20 minutes or less to help you build a thought leadership brand and business. My name is Jasmine Womack. I'm a former middle school language arts teacher turned seven figure entrepreneur, and I am glad that you are here. Let's get started.
All right. listen, we ready for this conversation? I'm so excited about this conversation. And I'm thankful for each and every one of you. I know that you are extremely busy for taking the time out to come and share and serve with our community. I have a very special relationship with each and every one of these ladies, and they are my sisters, each and every one of them. And this year's panel I wanted to bring to you all with courage, resilience and faith in Christ looks like each and every one of them have built their businesses up from nothing to over the 2 million annually or more per year mark. And so we're going to have some conversations today about faith, authenticity and of definitely business ownership. So please introduce yourselves. And I know LP did a fabulous job, but please go, starting with you, doctor Una, let us know who you are and what you do.
Hi, everybody. Hi. And thank you for putting this on. Like I can see the magic you're creating in the room already. My name is Nneka Unachukwu. So people call me Doctor Una for obvious reasons. Even my sister calls me Doctor Una. I'm a pediatrician by training. At this point, I'm a serial entrepreneur. I have a portfolio of five companies at this point. I've been married for 18 years. I have four kids, and one of the things entrepreneurship has made possible for me is I get to homeschool them, which is so amazing. I co-pastor a church with my husband and I live here in Atlanta, and really I've had the privilege of in my core business, what I do is I help doctors. We completely missed this class, the business class. So I help doctors learn the business side of things so they can build profitable businesses so they have the freedom to live life and practice medicine on their terms. Which may seem like why would doctors need that? There are over 400 physician suicides every year, so I know it looks nice from the outside, but it's a little rotten on the inside. So that's my God given mission to solve that problem.
Awesome.
Good afternoon. Yes. Thank you, Jasmine, again for allowing me to be here. It's always a pleasure to serve you. Have you all been enjoying this? Yes. Can we just celebrate Jasmine for a moment? I know we're here to talk about courage and resilience, but she is truly the epitome of courage and resilience. So I'm Doctor Jinneh. I live in Dallas, Texas. I am one of Jasmine's friends. She was a client turned friend, and she's stuck. I'm not letting her go, but I'm a mom of three. I'm a wife, and I'm also the owner of the Think Up group. So we teach high performing leaders like yourselves how to maximize your message and monetize your mission so you can build profitable and impactful businesses. So that's my first company. My second company is I'm a high performance coach. So I work with elite athletes, senior leaders. So universities, schools, corporations, physicians and I help them with mindset. So I'm the person that you will often see in the locker room of some of your favorite NFL, NBA teams that gets the athletes ready before they step on the football field or the basketball court. So I'm all about the head game. So we're going to get into the mindset today. So that's what I do. I've been in business now for it'll be 13 years I can't believe that in January. So 13 years in January. What I can say it has been nothing but the grace of God that I'm still here and that I'm still standing in the business. So I'm excited and ready to serve you all today.
So I'm absolutely going to join in the gratitude for Jasmine for creating this space. And at my core, I'm an educator, so I have a unique level of respect for this space that she's.
Created of the intentionality behind this space. I can even just tell by the tables and the manipulatives. I'm like, oh, this is an educator space. I'm here for it, right? So I just want to show her so much love for the space that she's created, as well as the invitation to be able to be with you all. So my name is Doctor Erica Jordan-Thomas. At my core, I'm an educator. And so my career started as a high school math teacher. And if you are trying to have a business, you need to be a math person. So we'll talk about that later. But my career started as a high school math teacher, went on to become a school principal. In the very short version of that story is a school board decision. Was going to add 400 kids to my building without additional resources, and I was like, oh my goodness, I don't think I can stay because they're requiring me to do even more work, and I'm already underpaid and my salary isn't going to change. And so I decided to start a consulting business. And my very first engagement was $1,600 for one day of professional development. And at that time. That was my two week check as a principal. So I made in a day what it took me two weeks to make as a principal, and I was like, yo, money can move faster, money can move differently. So that was in 2017. I continued to grow my business. And then in around maybe about 4 or 5 years ago is when I said, there are so many people who are asking me how to do the same things, and I was able to make more money, make money, move faster.
And I believe if anybody deserves to be a millionaire, it's an educator. And so that's what me and my people do. That's what we do at my company, is we help black educators become millionaires through packaging their skills and expertise into a seven figure education consulting business. And so we've been doing it for about 4 or 5 years. We've worked with over 500 clients across the country. We have four figure offers. We have five figure offers. We have multiple five figure offers. Have the conversation around pricing and the journey of pricing. And so just excited to be here with you all and excited to talk entrepreneurship because it's my jam.
Yes, let's let's, let's. So we're going to actually hop right into pricing as people of faith. Because this has been a question because we have two ministers on the podium. And I know you come from education like I do, and pricing was a challenge. So how do you manage faith and charging high ticket. High ticket. We're talking about five, multiple five and six figure offers.
Okay so come to Jesus moment. When I started my flagship program, which is the Entre Business school, I didn't have the guts to charge for it. I knew it was a $25,000 program, but I couldn't bring myself to do that. I started at 497 a month, and I don't regret doing that because it's either you take action or no action. I'm like, while I'm figuring this out, I'm going to charge something and we'll figure it out. So I started at $497. This was in June of 2020. Like who starts a business in the pandemic? But that's for a different day. And at the end of the year, I felt God tugging at my heart. He's like, I want you to do $1 million in this business for 2021. Already done that in my private practice. And I was like, how are we going to do that? He's like, you'll raise your prices. And so I said, okay, we'll do the million. We'll figure it out. So March, January, we were not on track. February of 2021. We were not on track. March I went for a conference. I was in a room like, you're in a room. And I heard somebody say this. They said someone approached me to buy my business for nine figures. But I think we'll get there in a few years. I mean, we're doing the easy million a month. I was like, easy million and month in the same sentence. Easy million a month. Now, this is a young lady. She's in her 30s. She had a four month old, like easy million a month. And so I said, okay, before I leave this place. This event was in Miami. Before we leave this place, I am going to figure this out.
I took the conference, ended, I went to the beach. I was like, I'm going to stay here. We're going to pray. We're going to figure this out. And God was like, you can charge $10,000 for your program. I was like, I cannot charge people $10,000 for this. So we're arguing for three hours. So I'm so I'm praying I'm like, okay, I can agree with you, but I don't have any confidence to charge that. And if I don't show up with the confidence, nobody's going to buy, I was like, how am I going to do this? So I'm walking around praying, praying the spirit. First hour passes. Second hour passes. Third hour passes. He asked me a question. He says, how much do I charge you to work with me? I'm like, what? And I thought about it. I was like, okay, you asked me for my whole life like, I'm your master. You serve me with everything you have. I say you charge me everything. He says, I charge you everything to work for me. I'm asking you to charge them 10,000. That's nothing. He says I charge high ticket. I was like, this was worth this three hour prayer meeting.
I went.
From there. I went straight back to my hotel room, went straight to my website, changed the prices to 10,000, called my team, said this is our new price. I did a launch right after that, 42 people signed up. That was $420,000 in one launch. And it's from one word he said, I charge high ticket.
That's good.
As I shared earlier today, for me, I look at it similar to Doctor Una, what ministry is what I do, but business is how I do it. And I remind myself of the source and what I'm connected to, like my obedience to do this is tied to my destiny. So for me, I don't look at it from a financial perspective. I look at it from where is God sending me? God knows the desires of my heart. Like I always say, I'm never booked. I'm sent. So every place that I put my feet down, I know that it's a mission field for me. And I know with that that God is a provider. So all of my needs will come. So for me, I was simply just faithful with where I was. I took my own mindset blocks out of the situation and I started thinking about God. How can you use me in this space? Because for me, I don't know about you, but I will talk myself out of something. I will compare myself. I will have doubt, as I shared earlier with a group of leaders, is that I remember the very first time where my coach was telling me to raise my prices. Number one, I had a hard time even investing in myself. There was a conference that was 497. At this time. I was a single parent. I was pursuing my doctoral degree and I was broke. I was broken and broke. I had $500 in my account. Exactly. Talk that talk. Y'all know that.
I had $500, but I knew it was a conference that I needed to be in. Like, I knew that I had to be there. I didn't know what for, but I knew that I had to be there. And at the time, this was in 2012 when I started the company, I was like, you know what, God, you are putting this on my heart. I'm going to trust you with this seed. Because for me, it wasn't. I was paying for a conference. I wasn't paying the person. I was investing in the space that I wanted to grow in. So I paid the $500, paid the 497. I had $3 left immediately. It was the moment that I hit send. Immediately this woman popped into my inbox. No idea who this woman is, she said. I've been praying and I just got a settlement from my insurance company because I had a car accident and she said I was going to buy some shoes, but God told me to sew this $500 into you. So it was in that moment that I knew, number one, this was the space I was supposed to be in. And then number two, that I realized that as kingdom leaders, as a kingdom leader, as an entrepreneur, it was my responsibility and an obligation to make the kingdom strong. And I can't make the kingdom strong if I'm broke, if I'm robbing Peter to pay Paul. Like I can't advance the kingdom. Like I believe that I'm the hands and feet of Jesus and I'm the mouthpiece. So in order for me to do the work, there has to be an investment. There has to be an exchange. So I look at it as I'm not just leaving a legacy. I'm leaving a legacy.
And the way that I do that is by sowing it to people and making them stronger in Christ.
Yeah, I agree with everything that has been shared. So as a woman of faith, I believe that everything that God is, I am too, because God lives within me. And so I don't believe I was designed to be financially broke. And I think that's easy to say, right? And I think there's like mindset work that comes behind that. And part of that is realizing, you know, that the reason why I don't have an issue at this point, charging what I do is because I've paid it. And I think we've also had to to realize the times in which we've made those investments. But we don't always look at it as an investment in our business. So first off, raise your hand if you have a master's degree. Raise your hand if you have a doctoral degree. Are you working on it? So you have already made a high ticket investment because the average master's degree is about 40 to $50,000. The average doctoral program is six figures. So you paid tuition. And anytime I'm paying a business coach, it's tuition. Right. And so I think that's also a part of the mindset shift that I had to go through, particularly as an educator. We have no problem paying for degrees that don't increase our pay.
Mhm.
No problem. But for some reason opportunity is put in front of our face that will actually set us up for financial freedom. All of a sudden it's like, well, what's the price of one rib? Like it's that one rib.
Like, what can I just do? And what if I just want this module of the curriculum? How much for just one coaching session when the reality is.
Is you cannot half step. You got to be fully committed for your business. And so when I think about the interconnection between my faith and pricing, really it's a journey of seeing myself the way that God sees me.
So good. Let's give them all. Listen. So good, so good. We're going to start with you, Doctor Erica, and then work our way back this way. What mindset shifts, or what was the biggest mindset shift that you had to make in order to reach this level in your business?
Oh, there was a number of mindset shifts that I had to make. I think the one that I have had to make. And now at this level, I'm continuing to have to stretch through it, particularly as my identity as a black woman and, you know, my identity as an educator and as a principal was very much so intertwined with who I was that I actually had to go through a season of separating the two of I am not my job, and my job is not me. But I also had to recognize that my job as a principal very much so, rewarded my ability to be able to solve problems without help. It awarded my ability to put on a superwoman cape and be the hero and like, save the day. It rewarded my ability to be able to function in chaos, right? And so it perpetuated all of these things, all of these attributes in certain contexts and situations, like they're needed. But in a business, they actually are a glass ceiling. Right. And so part of what that looks like for me from a mindset shift standpoint is, again, this is easy to say. It's like, well, you know, you need help. You know, you have to trust people. But I am at the stage of business now where now I am in reverse engineering eight figures where there are so many things I cannot be a part of from a time standpoint, from a revenue standpoint, I cannot be a part of. I just had a whole event two weeks ago. All I saw was backstage. Like that was the majority of my experience, where I saw AV more than I saw my team, right. And I had to trust that other people were doing what they needed to do.
But also, it's my responsibility to train people and set expectations, and then I have to trust. And ultimately what that comes down to is what I realize is most people who don't trust other people actually don't trust themselves. Um, and so that's really the work that like, I'm still continuing to do. And it's I don't see it as a destination. I see it as an unending journey, because every new level of business is going to require a new level of trust, because now I'm trusting different aspects of my team, but now the majority of my time is really not in client delivery. I'm all up with my CFO team because now I need to be line item by line item where we spend six figures a month. And so it's easy for someone to steal from me if I'm not paying attention. Right. So there's a different level of trust and due diligence that this stage of business requires. And for me, the biggest mindset shift was realizing that strength actually comes from my ability to be able to trust people that I hired to do their job. Mhm.
I think for me, there's so many mindset seasons because it's a constant renewal. But I'll take you back to in 2018. So 2012 I started the business and immediately my business grew. It was quick, it was easy, and it was just everything was flowing. And I'm like, man, this supposed to be hard because everybody around me is struggling. But I'm like, why is it so easy for me? And I was literally like, Peter walking on water where it was just easy. I didn't see the struggle. I didn't see slow seasons. And then in 2018, I received an instruction from God. Anybody ever received an instruction from God that did not make sense? So I received this instruction from God where he said, close your business down, pack up your stuff, give all your things away, and I want you to relocate. And at this time, I just landed. My business was flowing. I landed a TV deal, so I was on TV every single Monday. I had a radio show, so I had radio every Thursday. So here I was Monday and Thursday. I'm in the media. I'm running my business. I'm like, at the top. I feel like I'm finally living. And in 2018, he told me to shut everything down and start over. In that process of starting over, I found myself with a PhD in three kids on welfare, living in a room of a stranger in Dallas, Texas. I found myself in a space to let God. How did I get here? I did everything the right way. I went to school. I got the degrees. I started the business. We have the marriage. We have the kids. Like, I've done everything. I did the corporate check. Like I did everything you've asked me to do.
Why am I here? And I remember God telling me at that moment he said, I'm taking you back. So it wasn't the first time I'm taking you back in the valley, because the next time you're going to show other people how to get out of it. And it was in that moment where I realized who I was, like, I wasn't a speaker, like I wasn't a trainer. I wasn't a coach, that I was a person that had been called to disrupt dysfunctional thinking in God's children. So it was in that moment where I'm like, okay, well, how do I do this? Because what I saw in the speaker world back in 2018, there were very few women, and the only women I saw, they were only doing empowerment stuff. And I'm like, well, that feels good, but that ain't transformation. People going to go. They're going to be motivated and inspired, but they're going to leave there the same way. I was like, I don't want to do that. And then I saw a lot of men in the speaking industry, and they were speaking all the time, and I had kids, I had a newborn baby, and I'm like, well, I don't want that life. And God said, well, I'm going to show you how to create the life that you desire. So I remember this, y'all like it was yesterday. So I reached out and I was trying to find someone that had a model. Thank goodness you all have Jasmine as a model because I didn't have that in 2018. I reached out to someone asking for a model like, how are you doing it? And they said, I'm sorry, I can't work with you because you're a threat. And it was at that moment I'm like, okay, God, well, you're going to show me how to do this.
So it was that moment that my mindset shifted that I needed to trust God. I needed to leverage and build what I had, and I needed to believe in myself. So I'm sharing that with you because you have the tools here. And Jasmine has been up here. I've been in the back listening, getting the strategies, learning. But if you don't believe it, number one in your heart and then implement and do the work, then why are you here? So my mindset shifted that day when I reminded myself of who was inside of me and what I was called to do. And I say that because it's not by coincidence or happenstance that you all are here today. There's been a tug in your heart. There's been something that has been pulling at you and now is your time. So you have to ask yourself, like the mindset I have right now, is this helping or is this hurting? And you have to make a choice because I can tell you this, your voice has value and the world is waiting on you.
I had a number. One of the mindset shifts I had to have now as a physician. Perfectionism is something we do, which you have to appreciate. If you have someone working on your brain, you would like perfectionism, right? But when you come into the world of entrepreneurship, it's almost like intelligent trial and error in a way. And so I had to redefine the way I thought about failure. And so failure is not fatal. Nobody died. We don't have to run a code. There's no problem here. It's a lesson so I can win or I can learn. And that's really what gives us the freedom to do the experiments that are required for entrepreneurship to work, because there are no guarantees. How many of you walked in? Like, who can guarantee that if I do this, then that will happen. It doesn't work like that in this world. And so you can win or you can learn. And so I'm in this place where when something doesn't work out, I throw a fit. I'm not mad, I just stop and like, what lesson is this teaching me? How is this a gift? How can I take this and turn it into a weight weight lift and get even stronger? Get even better. So that was a big shift because if failure feels fatal, you can't move forward because you're constantly afraid. The second mindset shift, you know, was driving. My kids were initially homeschooled. Then they went to private school and then they went back to homeschool. So it's a whole journey. But when I put them in private school, I remember paying their tuition. I have four of them. Okay. I was driving back home. I was like, ouchie! That was a whole lot of money.
And God was like, don't ever treat money that way. Money is given to you as a tool to exchange for something you want. If four of them go on to be excellent students, to be all that I call them to be As grown ups. You won't remember what you spent. Don't ever think that the money you spent on them is too much. Because it's an exchange. It's currency. You give it in exchange for what you want. And so the second mindset shift is that there is a shortcut to success. People say there's none. There is. It's mentors and coaches. And so when I started off as an entrepreneur, wow, I would never be on this stage. In fact, I would never be in the middle. I'd be at the back and I'd find one person to talk to so nobody else would feel the need to talk to me. Where are my.
Introverts? That was me.
But think about what you require for entrepreneurship. Speaking, building a referral base, networking, talking about money, all of these things. They're just things introverts don't want to do. Okay, now when I decided this thing I want to do for physicians, I'm ready to do it. I came to an event like you guys are an event. It was a speakers bootcamp and the first day it was awesome and I was at the back. So it was.
Awesome.
And then the second day they had the nerve to say, everybody's going to speak for three minutes. I almost died, I went to escape, but I couldn't. And so they put us in this little breakout rooms, and we did our mini talk for three minutes, and they gave us a formula to speak so I could pull it off. I was like, this is fantastic. And then after that they said, and you can work with us for ten months, and this is what we'll do. And they started talking about all the things. I was like, oh my goodness, this is amazing. And it's like, it's for an investment of $43,000. I was like, you all have lost your ever loving mind. I was like, is this laced with gold? Like, I don't understand. And I didn't know about coaching. I didn't know about it. I was like, what just happened? Somebody make it make sense?
But you see.
I had I had this.
Nudge that there's something so much more I can be. And this version of me can't pull it off. And so I call my husband. I said, there's this thing. These people are crazy. This is what they said. But I kind of, sort of think we should do it. Until today, my husband still says that is the best $43,000 we have ever spent. Now, that's what got me to where I launched a second business and took it to the first hundred thousand, first 200,000. We crossed a million in revenue. Now, when I got to a million, I knew that that version of me did not have the capacity to take us to 2 million. And so I didn't even wait to be taught. I sat down, I was like, okay, Lord, who are we going to work with? Who's going to take us there? Because I know I can take me there and I don't have forever. We're burning daylight. And God in his faithfulness, he's like, this is the person you're going to work with. And within the next 12 months, we cross the $2 million mark. So there is a shortcut to success. The third mindset really quickly because your people of faith. There was a day I was thinking about my program, the on trend business school, and I was scared it wouldn't work. And what if that doesn't work and that doesn't work? And God is like, you are very confused. I'm like, sir, he said, I built it. I'm the one who gave you the idea, I built it, it's complete. It's a complete prototype up here. I'm just looking for who will be faithful enough to build it down here. There is no chance of it failing. Except you don't do the work.
So it is done. It is tested. It is proven. So when you have these pulls and tugs in your heart, Don't ignore them. I had no idea it would be what it is now. I had no idea it would be a podcast. And the books and millions in revenue and thousands of doctors. Life change, a whole revolution. I had no idea that nudging there is so much after it. He doesn't show you the complete picture. Just say yes and then yes and then yes. And then people are like, how did you get here? You know what you did, but really, you don't know how you got there. Just say yes to those nudges because the product is already finished. It's complete.
It's so good. That's so good, so good. We could be up here the rest of the evening. Afternoon talking. You brought something up that I want to expound on. And that is how did the role of coaching and mentorship help you in your journey of getting to the million and past the million dollar mark? And we'll start with you, Doctor Jin, and then go to Doctor Erica and Come back to doctor.
So when I hired my first coach and this was in 2013, I didn't know the pricing. So I was like, yes, I mean, I think I ran to the back of the table. I was the first one there because I'm thinking in my mind, oh, this is going to be probably about a couple hundred, maybe $1,000. So when she gave me the form and she was like 10,000 paid in full, I said 10,000. What?
I said.
10,000. That's a car.
So in my mind, I only could see the car. I couldn't fathom, like, why would I pay somebody 10,000? And I remember my coach, he told me this, and I want you to write this down. He said, if you can only see the payment, you will never see the payoff. And it was like, would you invest 10,000 to make 100,000? To me, that was easy math. That's a no brainer. Absolutely. Would you invest 10,000 to make a million? Oh, absolutely. That's a no brainer. And he's like, well this is a no brainer. My next level was on the other side of that. Yes. So what coaching and mentorship did for me was that he showed me the blueprint. Like he had already done it. And then I've had several coaches since, but I'm going back to my very first coach. He had already done it. He knew the language. He had the relationships established because relationships are everything in the speaking world. Relationships are currency. He had the relationships established. He already had did it. He knew what worked, what didn't work. He knew how to set pricing. All I had to do was to follow the plan. All I had to do was to build the framework. And the framework that this coach gave me in 2013 is the same framework that I'm using in 2024. Now, of course, I've had other coaches that have helped tweak and we focus on different things. The business side, we focus on messaging. But it was in that moment when he said, if you can only see the payment, you'll never see the payoff. So here's my thought on it. Invest in the space where you want to grow in. So if you want to grow in nutrition, then you're going to work out.
You're going to eat differently. You're going to maybe get a gym membership. If you want to grow in your marriage, then maybe you'll invest in therapy. You'll invest in coaching. If you want to grow in your business, invest in the space that you want to grow in and consider this. There's a seed that you're planting. It is not your job and your responsibility to determine when that seed is going to produce a harvest. It is by faith that we know that when we plant the seeds, when we sow it, that we're going to reap the harvest. So anything that you do in this point, just know this is a seed that I'm planting. And all the tears that you've cried because I know you've been crying some tears to get to this point. Just know that all those tears, they've just watering the seed that God has already given inside of you.
Good. That's so good. It's so good, so good.
So there are two things that I think about. The first thing is we just have to normalize paying for access, right. And I'll speak for myself culturally that is contradictory to how I was raised. Right. So I was raised where you work hard, you work your way up. If you need something, you figure it out, you go get it. Like get it out the mud, pull yourself up from the bootstraps. I'm like, well, I could pay for the bootstraps. Like.
How about that? Like, how about I.
Just pay for them rather than, like pulling myself up from them? So I name that though, because there's a level of insight now that I have, that I did not have 4 or 5 years ago, that has come from being in rooms that was a result of paying for access. So first off, I'm in for masterminds. I have professional membership to organization for seven figure plus business owners. I have two of those, so I have multiple investments that I make in my own development that doesn't even include conferences, you know, other things that are my own development. And one of those organizations that I'm a part of, we had a week long seminar at the London School of Business, where I was one of the smallest businesses in the room. Membership requires you to have seven figures of annual revenue, and I was one of the smallest businesses. I was the only black person in the room, and in navigating that room, the conversation was so different. It was so different. And what was interesting was that the things that most people outside of that room fear were not even a factor in that room. When people were saying they're afraid to hire someone literally said, our growth strategy is dependent upon us hiring. There's someone who's afraid to go full time in their business because of retirement. They ain't even thinking about that. They making too much money for retirement. Like that's not even a factor, right? So I say that because I think a part of and this goes back to a little bit to the mindset shift question is if you think that you can just Google your way, YouTube your way, read your way into your destiny, your freedom, your seven figure business, I'm telling you, you are putting off your freedom.
It is going to take you exponentially longer for you to achieve what should already be yours. And if you are, I'm about to hurt somebody's feelings and I apologize in advance. Listen, pull your toes in, okay? If you already knew it, you would be doing it right. Okay, so let's just agree, touch and agree that you need help. And that's okay. We all need help. And that's why I pay so much money. Because I'm like, I do not have time to waste because not only am I trying to get free, I'm trying to get my mama free. I'm trying to get my grandmama free. I'm trying. I just hired my sister a month ago, and the only reason that's possible is because I'm willing to pay for somebody to tell me the answer. Right. And so I just say that from the perspective of a, you just got to shift and normalize paying for access. And then the second and last thing that I'll say is you have to anticipate and you might already be experiencing it, an identity crisis that's going to come as a result of you continuing to grow and elevate. And it's a necessary identity crisis, because really, you're coming in alignment with who you are already intended to be. Right? So the identity crisis is really you shedding what the world has told you, the lies that the world has told you. And for my people of faith, the enemy is real loud right now. And we know that the enemy is a lie. Right? But you have more faith right now in the enemy than you do in your own faith. And that's okay. I've been there too. I'm still there, girl. right? But I say that because a part of the paying for access is the only reason I know Jasmine is because I paid $30,000 to be in a program that she invested into.
Yeah.
The only reason I know, doctor owner is because we both paid $60,000 to be in a program that we both ended up in. So at this stage, as I'm going through an identity crisis, I don't meet them at Starbucks. I don't meet them randomly walking together at church. I meet them by making an intentional investment because the investment is coming out of a similar values place. That's how I meet my friends. So that's also how I think about my investment in coaching is it is critical for my next level that I am surrounded by people who are values aligned. They are not at Starbucks. They might be at my church, but for real, for real. I'll be logging in. So I'm not going to meet you at church because I'm just.
Logging into YouTube.
So if you dare, I'm not going to meet you. I get a Word, but if you know me, you know I don't drive. And so that's why I'm not there. Because I don't drive by choice. Because that's a whole another conversation. But again, I have options. I choose not to drive. That's not the best use of my time. But I say that because investment is also I'm actually strategically building my network of friends. Right? So that's also what you have to be thinking about. Your friends for your next level are going to come from investing for access. You're also investing for your network, right?
That's so good. And I definitely want Doctor Owner to answer that question as well. I know we met in a program as well and or through a program, and I think it's so important. It's so powerful that you shared that investing in your network, expanding your network. I remember the very first year that I hosted, published and paid live four years ago, and I was looking for people to come on my panel. I was just asking around to friends of mine I knew who had books, and it was one young lady that I had a conversation with that we had some kind of relationship, kind of, sort of. But she was killing it in the book game. And I reached out to her and said, hey, I'm hosting an event. You know, I would love for you to come, you know, on the panel. Is this something that you know you'd be available to do? She sent me to her speaking form. I never filled it out. I was just like, oh, and here's the thing about it. I had been sending her clients for free for years because she did book cover design. And I like to send people clients. I don't take a commission. I know you do good work. You have a business. I want to refer business to you. So I had been sending her clients for years and never asked for nothing. But when I asked her, you know, would you come speak at my event on a panel she sent me to her speaking forum. I was like, the.
Audacity when I'm. You know what I'm saying?
Like, not from a cocky space, but no, this should have just been a bet when I sent a message to Doctor Una, Doctor Gina and Doctor Erica let me know the time and the place.
It. Was. I'm there. It was. Let me check my schedule. Let me make sure I'm in town or let me make sure I'm good. But I'm there. And that's the power of relationship. That's the power of connection. And that's also the power of building and being intentional and building your network, because now you're connecting with people of other like minds, and not just people who are going to take, take, take. You follow me. All right. Doctor una, I would love to hear your answer to that question.
So we have a different way of looking at it. But coaching is a strategy. It's, you know, when you set your goals for December 2025, this is where I'm going to be by December. One of your strategies is coaching. Like you may say, I have a sales strategy. I have a this strategy. But that's one of your strategies. Like clearly I'm sold on it. I probably spent it since I paid said $43,000 for the program that was laced in gold.
Yeah. I've probably spent six figures ever since. Every single year. It is a strategy now. So I'll give you two illustrations and I hope you never forget it. The first is you cannot rise above your environment. You can try, but you cannot think about how different you are because you walked into this room and you've been here for two days. What if you were doing this for a year? Now, if you take you and put you back in the environment that you had to rise out of to be this person right now. It's only a matter of time, and you're going to go back to the way you were. You can't rise above your environment. And when I say your environment, I mean the people in your world. It is like staying under a vent, full blast, cold air. And you're like, I will not be cold. Oh, I refuse to be cold. I don't identify as cold. I resist this cold in the name of Jesus. And somebody is like, just move away from the vent.
This is not complicated.
In the same way, if you're hot, the vent is right there. Go stay under it. How many of you are like, that's smart, right? That's smart. And so if you want to be a certain way, you find a room full of people who are that way and you put yourself in the room, this is a simple thing. Okay, for those of you who are people of faith, who believe that God is smart and who believe the scriptures cannot be broken, are you in this room? Yes.
Okay. The Holy Scriptures, written by God, the wisest being that ever exists, says this. Walk with the wise and become wise.
Period. Yes.
So I am wise, but I want to be wise. God almighty, what should I do? Find some people who are wise and walk with them.
Oh that's good.
So I want to build a business. I want to have a book that's a bestseller. I want to build $1 million thing off of my book. Find the people who've done that and insert yourself in those circles. So when I, for instance, I told you when I hit a million in revenue and I know we want to go to two. I'm like, I don't know how to do it. And the people in my world don't know how to do it. Who are the people doing it? And I paid them 70 grand for the pleasure to learn how to do it. The question is this. I paid them 70 grand and then I made the 2 million. Who's owing who? Who owes who money? Do you see what I'm saying? So decide where you want to be. Understand that if you could get there, you'd be there. But you're not. So since you're not there, find the vent that's blowing the juice. Okay. Find the people who are doing the thing and insert yourself there. It is a strategy. When I work with with doctors, they tell me, oh, your program is expensive. I'm like, compared to what exactly your medical degree that put you in this position? And you, you just can't take it anymore, like, compared to that? Or is it compared to the MBA at Emory University right here or like compared to what? This is the biggest discount there's ever been. And I'm like, I ain't never paid 30 grand for anything like you getting the discount? I paid three times that every single year. Come on. So we have to ask ourselves the question, is it really the program or is it that we're not committed.
Mhm. Yes we are. I'm going to pay all that. Will you give me a guarantee. Can't give you the guarantee because you got to do the work. I'm committed to doing the work. Now please don't understand. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to say anything is wrong. But it is important that we ask ourselves the right questions. So is the problem it or is the problem that I'm not truly committed to that outcome? I'm not convinced I'll put in the work. I've tried it before and maybe I didn't pull it off. Gotta give yourself some grace. This is our one precious life. Someday we're going to be 90. We want to look back and have no regrets. We want to look back and say we did it all. When it's time to die. You're like, the Earth can have my empty carcass because ain't nothing there. I squeezed it all out. So say yes to you. Take the strategy God has given you and use it and force your life to change. I was at a reunion with my classmates from medical school. I graduated medical school in 2003 and they are all staring at me. How did you become this person? We know you. You were like the baby in the class. You were the youngest in the class. You were so shy you wouldn't talk to anybody. How are you, this person? And I'll tell you how. There are a number of things that happened. But one of my big strategies is who is the person who's doing what I want to do? Thinking the way I want to think, living the life I want to live. And I insert myself in that circle. Those circles will not be free. The free circles are where all the other stuff happen.
Insert yourself. It is a tool given to you by God.
So good. So good. So good. And we have one final question. I'm going to direct this to Doctor Erica Jordan-Thomas. And then we're going to do some Q and A's. So pricing you know I know that as an educator you struggle with pricing. You started out a conversation saying that you started you know, your educational consulting. I think it was around 15 or $1600 for a session or a workshop. And you realize that that was you got paid in one day, half of what you made on your salary in a month. But that's not your rates now, and you have grown from that. So what has been your pricing strategy with your programs, and how did you build your confidence to charge that?
Great question. So this really comes down to knowing your numbers. And here's the thing. Most people do not know their numbers. And if you know your numbers, it will position you so far ahead of the average entrepreneur, and it positions you to navigate in such a more sophisticated way that is just going to set you up for success in your business. So there are a few numbers that you need to be considering when you're determining your pricing. You need to know your salary. How much do you want to pay yourself? You then need to know your estimated expenses. So how much does it cost to actually deliver this service? And you need to think expansively around expenses because that's software, that's print cost, that's travel costs. That's anything that is required to deliver that a VA, any type of time associated with that. You need to think super expansively around the expenses associated with delivering that service. You need to consider your estimated tax obligation, because you got to pay taxes on every dollar that you bring into your business. And then the most Underestimated number that most business owners aren't thinking about. Particularly early stage business owners is their profit margin. So after you pay yourself, after you pay your expenses, after you slide some to the side for taxes, you should still have money left over because you are a for profit business and that's what you're using to help build a reserve. So when people tell me that they can't afford to hire a VA, I'm like, you're either undercharging or you're paying yourself more than what you said you were going to pay yourself because you don't have a reserve, right? So if you know those numbers and you're considering those when you're pricing, it helps you at least determine what your floor is.
So when some people are saying, well, I have a 12 week coaching program and I decided to charge $3,000, I'm like, okay, so tell me, how did you get to that number? Well, I just picked a number. Okay. Well, let's actually run your numbers. Well, first off, that $3,000 dollars is really more like 2000 after taxes. So we can just take 1000 off the top. Right. So now with $2,000, let's talk through your expenses. Do you have a VA? Technology, all that stuff. Okay. So now we're down to a thousand. So for that program you're only going to pay yourself $1,000. And how many weeks was it. Those numbers don't make sense. Right. So oftentimes we are choosing our pricing from the wrong place. We're choosing our pricing from someone else's bank account. That is none of our business. And meanwhile your bank account ain't growing right. So that's also part of the mindset shift is most people are making too many assumptions around other people's bank account. And let me tell you, I done had some folks who paid in full and ain't none of my business right? But I'm sitting here thinking, well, maybe I don't know, I'm going to I'm going to decide to charge $15,000. And they're like, send me the invoice. Matter of fact, here's my ACH form. Go ahead, draft it out of the account. If you're so clear around the value that you provide, you will understand that $15,000 to your target audience is actually a steal. Because the pain that they experience, the pain point is so aggravating for them that $15,000 is a no brainer in order to to solve and alleviate their pain point. So those would be the things that I would think through is, hey, you just got to know your numbers.
And if you just take a stab at running your numbers, there is probably a 90% chance you're undercharging. And if you are a service based business, I believe you should have a profit margin of at least 30 to 50%, at least not ten. So that's been a little bit of my journey, is really understanding my numbers. And once once I know my numbers, that takes the feelings out of it because I'm like, I can't even pay myself if I charge that. I can't even pay my taxes. If I charge that, what do I look like boarding a flight for you? And I had to pull my money out of my own account in order to pay for my ticket to come and do my workshop? That'll make sense. So that's a little bit of how I think through. It is really like you just got to know your numbers. And for me, that caused my mindset to shift real quick because I'm like, I actually can't afford to keep doing this if I keep charging such low numbers that don't even make me a profit, I'm actually losing money by charging so low.
So good, so good, so good. Okay. And while you were saying, I'm gonna bounce that to you as well, Doctor Jinneh, because you speaking are in the corporate space and you started out charging super low and actually lost out on a contract because you charge too low. So could you tell us about that?
So I got an opportunity to speak at a school district, and I thought because it was a local place, it was literally like a mile from my house. I'm like, okay, I'm going to save them money. I'm going to help them. Like, I need to help $1 million, you know? I'm like, okay, I'm gonna help them. So I remember I went in, it was a two hour training, and I put a proposal together for like $5,000. And this is when I was just starting 5000. I'm like, I'm clear. Like, I'm going to get this because it's right down the street from my house. It's a no brainer. The other person, because if you remember, 5000 and up for many schools, is when they have to get another proposal. So when I put the 5000 on the table, there was another company and they put 18 five for two hour training. Who do you think they went to? They went to the 18 five. So I called them back after I saw their Twitter and the speaker I'm like, hold up, what happened? And they said, well, we went with a company that was more sophisticated and pretty much polished because I didn't show that I was serious with the five when somebody else said, we're 18 five. So I learned in that moment, don't count nobody else's money. When people tell you they don't have a budget, they do have a budget. If somebody's going to get paid that day, I'm going to get paid. So let me tell you what I did to reverse it for the next year. So I was like, bet you want to be petty. I'll be petty to y'all. Jesus is still working on me. So what? I did what I did.
I went to every school district in that area.
And. I spoke at that school district because the speaking world is very, very, very small. So when they see you speaking here, then somebody else is going to hire you. So what I did, I came back the next year. Well, they actually came to me. They said, hey, we've been watching and we see you everywhere. So I doubled you said 18.5. Oh no, you're going to pay me 40 this year. So I did a two hour training for 40 grand. But what it taught me, y'all, what it taught me, is that we get into our heads and we start counting other people's money. And what the Bible tells you is don't count the cost of it, right? You do the work. You do the work of it. You believe you don't need to count the cost. You just need to be faithful. So get out of your head. Put the number down. Do the math. I love how she's so calculated. She did the whole math when I was starting to speak and I was like, okay, where? Where do I want to vacation to? This is where I'm going to go. This is how much it's going to cost. I love, I love how it started, really with the strategy do the work, do the research, do the research. Remember, build your speaking collateral. So if you know that you haven't been consistent in the game, don't be trying to ask people for high numbers. Build it up, build it up, because I'll have people and I'll say this, Jasmine, is that I'll have people that come. They don't have a coaching program, they don't have a book. They don't have a curriculum. Like, well, I want to make six figures and speaking tomorrow. And I'm like, you got to start somewhere.
You got to build it, build where you are, be faithful with every single place. Like doctor E said, hey, it was 1600, but I built from there. She was faithful. She learned in that space. Not saying we started at 1600 or my 150. My very first talk was 150. We don't start there, but we be faithful and God will do the rest.
Yes. Let's give them all a hand, please. All right. We have time for about three questions. About three questions. So we have Coach Stella and Doctor Justin. We're live streaming to. We are on a live stream audience. Hey. Live stream. Hey.
Alright. First, it's interesting to see you all here because I'm used to listening to you all and watch you while walking to the mailbox.
So good to see.
You in person. I wrote down my question. This is for Doctor Erica. Congratulations on your conference. Speaking of mindset shift. I'm building my content confidence, and I love the content that you share because I feel like it's radically honest, vulnerable, and educational. My favorite videos are the ones where you're speaking to what I presume is someone on the other side interviewing you. So my first question is, is somebody actually on the other side? And then the second part is, what was the moment for you that this strategy you're using for content that is converting people is the one you should be doing consistently?
Great question, great question.
Great question. So I definitely believe in integrity. So there's someone on the other side. I'm not one of those that just like set up and act like I'm being interviewed. So yes absolutely. There's someone on the other side. So first off, so I have a social media team that I pay. However, before I paid them, I got myself as far as I could in my own social media to where I had already went viral a couple of times with my content to know what resonates with my audience. And this is getting ready to sound very technical, but I had my team actually go through before I hired a social media team because I needed to have a very clear opinion around what was the messaging resonating with my audience in order to tee them up, to go even further. So I actually had my team go through all of my content the past six months and actually track what was the highest in terms of comments, likes, views, and then actually create themes. What were the themes across those contents? And we just simply need to be able to produce more of those themes. Now, here's to answer your question. Kind of the nugget in this, because repeat the last sentence of your question for me, I think, was how to build your content confidence? Yeah. What was that.
Moment that this strategy for content is the one you should be.
Doing consistently? Gotcha. Okay, so here's what's interesting. As someone who I'm like on the cusp of extroverted introverted, I'm also consider myself to be private like. But it's interesting, people who follow me on social media think they know a lot about me. And I'm like, you actually don't. Like like you. Because don't nobody know about my love life. I don't be posting nothing about that. Don't nobody really be knowing, like deep in the back things about me. Most of the things that I work, it all connects, connects back to my framework. Right. So I have a framework for my business that everything in terms of content that I deliver to my clients is based off of. And that's the same framework that we use for content. So if it is not connected to my framework, I'm not posting it. Right. So even if I'm at, let's say, Slutty Vegan for lunch and I post that, I'm posting a picture of the menu showing you that she has every single thing Trademark on her menu. Because one of my pillars and my wealthy black educator framework is legal, right? And we're talking about intellectual property. So that moment for me was a everything has to be connected to a framework, because I think that's one of the things that a lot of people get. They think that they have to open up every aspect of their life. And I'm like, if it ain't related back to my framework, I'm not posting it. And the second thing is, is you have to be willing to take a stand. You have to be willing to say the things that most people aren't willing to say. You have to anticipate the trolls like, I want to be so anchored in an opinion that I am going to attract, and I'm also going to deflect.
So I have posted on my social media things about my lifestyle that are very clear in taking a stance, and there are a lot of people who've called me a lot of things on social media. I don't pay attention to that, but the people who are my people find me. So I say that of whatever is the thing that is your deep opinion, right? And I actually just had a content day yesterday and they asked me my thoughts on standardized testing. And so there'll be a real coming up around standardized testing. Right. And which is as an educator, you know, it's like that's that's a little spicy there. I have another role that they asked me, what's something we've normalized in education that I think is racist.
Mhm.
And that will be coming out I said uniforms.
Yes.
Right. So it's a little spicy. So I'm just giving you those as examples of yes talk about your products and services. But what's a stance that is so clearly aligned to your business, your framework. It is a clear opinion that is going to attract people, but it also deflects the people that are not for you as well.
First, can I just say.
That you guys have really, truly broke some scales. Off me.
Because I love the classroom.
Based off of my illness.
And I've been afraid to get back in there because of the fact I've been focusing on the illness more so than me just focusing on purpose. And so today, I am just really being delivered. But my question that I want to have is, would you think going back to your old school connections, like the counselors, people who you've had connections with, is a good first step into maybe getting open door opportunities to get back into speaking and some other things that you used to do when you were in the classroom.
Absolutely. So my personal philosophy is that your first couple of six figures is actually from your network, which is why I don't believe you need a website. You really should be focused on a logo in the beginning, early stages, because those things are really to prove to yourself that you're worthy. Not necessarily to prove to other people. Because if you are really about that action. And so this is what I'd want you to think through. Create a scenario. Let's I want you to envision the person that you love deeply. It could be a parent. It could be a partner. It could be a child. It could be a sibling. Okay, get that person in your mind. Show me a thumbs up when you get that person in your mind. Okay. I now want you to imagine that you get a text that that person has been kidnapped. And in order for them to be released, you have to come up with $50,000. What would you do? I'd tell you. You wouldn't be creating a website. You wouldn't be in Canva trying to make no logo.
Okay.
You wouldn't be out here trying to order business cards. You would be like, who am I? Phone. Do I know that I can hit up right now and I can start pitching. I can sell to let me go through my LinkedIn and figure out who do I know. That's the energy that you should be moving from particular at all times, but particularly in the early stage when you're just trying to make money. You are moving from the I just lost my job energy. Somebody done kidnapped somebody I love, and I need to make the ransom. Like that's the energy you're moving from. So to answer your question of should I reach out to people that I used to work with? If somebody had your loved one that was kidnapped and they said they needed 25, $50,000, would you hit up people you used to work with and be like, yo, I got this workshop. That's X amount. Yeah, you absolutely should.
Awesome, awesome. Let's give them all a round of applause. Thank you so much.
